tortoise
Aug 23, 03:04 PM
Do you have a reference showing that this translates to better performance in real-world application tests in a head to head competition?
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
theBB
Mar 31, 07:13 PM
If you're going to licence your project as open source, then you do actually have to release the source. I know there's often a delay with commercial products. I suppose the tolerance of the open source community depends on the reason and the amount of time the code is held back.
Well, the rules for GPL say you need to release the source code along with the software and you actually have to offer them through the same channel, so that you cannot make it practically impossible for people to get to the source even if it is theoretically available. Of course, GPL is not the only "open source" license. This is Google's playground, so they get to define it any way they wish.
Well, the rules for GPL say you need to release the source code along with the software and you actually have to offer them through the same channel, so that you cannot make it practically impossible for people to get to the source even if it is theoretically available. Of course, GPL is not the only "open source" license. This is Google's playground, so they get to define it any way they wish.
rdowns
Mar 24, 12:43 PM
The right pro-war machine is all but gone. The policies haven't changed, but the party color of the president has.
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.
freeny
Jul 20, 08:10 AM
WOW! Octo cores:eek:
Im due a new computer and every time I hear about whats in the pipeline I bump my purchase date ahead another 4 months:o
Im due a new computer and every time I hear about whats in the pipeline I bump my purchase date ahead another 4 months:o
mdelvecchio
Mar 31, 03:28 PM
The question is what will Google do when they do publish the source code? All of these people pointing and laughing didn't read the article.
no, the question is: "Is this evil?" when google starts rejecting Facebook Android phones, or android versions using Bing and not Google...
thats the question.
no, the question is: "Is this evil?" when google starts rejecting Facebook Android phones, or android versions using Bing and not Google...
thats the question.
ugp
Jun 15, 12:49 PM
My RS store would not let me leave information.
They are waiting till 1pm EST.
Meanwhile, people are twittering their stores
are issuing pin numbers to them.
What gives?
Man of man, was Radio Shack the worst outfit
to do this through. Don't totally blame them for
being handed this crap.
Stores were told any ticket generated before 12CST would be voided.
They are waiting till 1pm EST.
Meanwhile, people are twittering their stores
are issuing pin numbers to them.
What gives?
Man of man, was Radio Shack the worst outfit
to do this through. Don't totally blame them for
being handed this crap.
Stores were told any ticket generated before 12CST would be voided.
SPUY767
Nov 28, 10:12 PM
Actually, they do. They also got paid on every blank tape sold when cassettes were big. I think it is crazy for everyone to think that the music industry is greedy when it getting squeezed out of all of their revenue streams. So, Apple makes hundreds of millions off of their back on the itunes site, and a billion off of iPod sales, and they cannot share in the wealth?
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
Just so you know, flame bait is almost always ignored. So don't bother.
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
Just so you know, flame bait is almost always ignored. So don't bother.
chrmjenkins
Apr 6, 12:00 PM
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Are you comparing it to a MBA with 320M or a 13" MBP with 320M? The latter is unfair because it is not analogous to the CPU and GPU speed in an ultra-portable like the series 9 or MBP.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
Just exactly what end use do you imagine being crippled in the MBA by going from a 320M to a HD3000 IGP? Surely you don't suggest that the number of people gaming on the MBA and who demand that performance is sufficient enough to determine the fate of the product line or even approach appreciable numbers in sales.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Are you comparing it to a MBA with 320M or a 13" MBP with 320M? The latter is unfair because it is not analogous to the CPU and GPU speed in an ultra-portable like the series 9 or MBP.
Are you smoking something? Sure the IGP used in SB 13" MBP might get some fudged numbers by those who report for Apple, but you think the ULV SB IGP is going to even compare to the 320m on any level??? Huh? You are far smarter than that.
A lot of people using the 13" MBP in comparison when there are almost no similaries.
I don't believe a ULV CPU gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe this CPU in the story gets used in the 13" MBA. I don't believe Apple is dumb enough to ruin the MBA brand AGAIN with Intel's IGP at this time. I don't believe that what Apple does in the 13" MBP has any correlation with the MBA because the IGP is different. I believe when Apple and Nvidia said Apple will use the Nvidia chipset and GPU for a long time they were specifically citing the MBA, as it make no sense for the MBA to be so challenged as to get such an inferior design leading to tragic real world results.
In 2012 the MBA will get an update when it actually makes sense. People waiting for a ULV SB chip in the 13" MBA will be waiting a long time. People waiting or expecting SB IGP to even compare in ULV variants will be waiting forever as they cannot match the Nvidia offering with the underclocked IGP.
This story is ridiculous as written.
Just exactly what end use do you imagine being crippled in the MBA by going from a 320M to a HD3000 IGP? Surely you don't suggest that the number of people gaming on the MBA and who demand that performance is sufficient enough to determine the fate of the product line or even approach appreciable numbers in sales.
NJRonbo
Jun 22, 09:05 AM
ugp,
Were there any PINS given in your store?
Please keep us updated. We look forward to it.
Thanks
Were there any PINS given in your store?
Please keep us updated. We look forward to it.
Thanks
jaxstate
Jul 15, 08:53 AM
I'm really wondering how low the low end will be. I have no need for a new intel MacPro, but I do wonder how this will affect the prices of the G5s that will be left in inventory. Wonder will we see a big price drop. Didn't happen with the notebooks, but one can dream.
Has there been any news on new displays?
Has there been any news on new displays?
inkswamp
Jul 28, 04:34 AM
gnasher729, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I had to read it twice, but I get it.
So it seems that in many ways we're getting the best of the G5 and the best of Intel with the Core 2 Duo chips. As these kinds of things unfold, Apple's decision to switch to Intel chips makes more and more sense. They probably knew where Intel was going. Interesting.
So it seems that in many ways we're getting the best of the G5 and the best of Intel with the Core 2 Duo chips. As these kinds of things unfold, Apple's decision to switch to Intel chips makes more and more sense. They probably knew where Intel was going. Interesting.
SeaFox
Aug 5, 06:04 PM
I can't believe it's only two days away, how time flies.
I'll be expecting the new Mac Pro to show up (order now, shipping in 6-8 weeks) and new displays (to match the Mac Pro's new enclosure, and becuase they haven't been updated in waaaay too long).
I don't think anything iPod-related will happen, but I'd really like them to update the Shuffle if they're going to.
I'll be expecting the new Mac Pro to show up (order now, shipping in 6-8 weeks) and new displays (to match the Mac Pro's new enclosure, and becuase they haven't been updated in waaaay too long).
I don't think anything iPod-related will happen, but I'd really like them to update the Shuffle if they're going to.
dscuber9000
Mar 31, 05:12 PM
Android is the next windows. So many drivers, so much requirements, so many configurations, so little memory. Fortunately Apple's provided a better sandbox.
I really do think that Android/Windows is a good comparison. At least, in terms of getting Android out there on as many different phones as possible. And while that certainly worked, it doesn't really mean that Android is the best OS because it is slightly different depending on the hardware it is on. Which brings up a clear advantage of iOS: It's written specifically for the hardware it is on.
I really do think that Android/Windows is a good comparison. At least, in terms of getting Android out there on as many different phones as possible. And while that certainly worked, it doesn't really mean that Android is the best OS because it is slightly different depending on the hardware it is on. Which brings up a clear advantage of iOS: It's written specifically for the hardware it is on.
gnasher729
Aug 17, 10:34 AM
It doesn't matter what the tests are if you are doing it for comparison. As long as it is done the same on both machines, who cares?
That is wrong.
Lets say I wrote some Altivec code to make some function faster on a 400 MHz G4, because on that machine it made a noticable difference. After porting to Intel, with the slowest machine (1.66 GHz Core Solo) being at least six times faster, I didn't bother. If you measure that code, you won't find too much difference in speed. It is the code that matters that matters.
That is wrong.
Lets say I wrote some Altivec code to make some function faster on a 400 MHz G4, because on that machine it made a noticable difference. After porting to Intel, with the slowest machine (1.66 GHz Core Solo) being at least six times faster, I didn't bother. If you measure that code, you won't find too much difference in speed. It is the code that matters that matters.
Orange-DE
Jul 21, 07:15 AM
hi,
i've just sold my dual g5 because
i plan to buy a new macpro in august.
But seems that it will be already obsolate after 3 months.
Please can you tell me if the socket of woodcrest
will make the macpro upgradable one day,
or these new type of processors need differet socket?
Thanks.
I am shure you will be able to upgrade for a minimum of two years to come.
Because it�s an professional system and it�s based on intel�s long-time-support for servers etc.
k?
i've just sold my dual g5 because
i plan to buy a new macpro in august.
But seems that it will be already obsolate after 3 months.
Please can you tell me if the socket of woodcrest
will make the macpro upgradable one day,
or these new type of processors need differet socket?
Thanks.
I am shure you will be able to upgrade for a minimum of two years to come.
Because it�s an professional system and it�s based on intel�s long-time-support for servers etc.
k?
highdefw
Apr 11, 10:23 AM
One more day and we'll know... Seriously, this better be one hell of an update.
portishead
Apr 12, 12:17 AM
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
Barely any of these are features you NEED. Yes we all want a faster NLE, but people are talking like FCP doesn't work, and is light years behind. All it needs is an update to 64 bit, new quicktime platform, and some other things which I won't go into.
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
Barely any of these are features you NEED. Yes we all want a faster NLE, but people are talking like FCP doesn't work, and is light years behind. All it needs is an update to 64 bit, new quicktime platform, and some other things which I won't go into.
01civicman
Apr 8, 08:30 AM
Sorry if this has been beaten to death over the next nine pages but I just don't have the time to read it all this morning.
It's very simple really. Each day a retail outlet like Best Buy has a budget they want to hit. Even though it depends on local let's call it $75,000. Now let's say in this very high pressure competitive environment I have already made budget but know that tomorrow my budget is going to be $100,000. I'm a little nervous about hitting that but know that I got like 15 iPads sitting in the back. Very simple solution. Do not sell anymore iPads for the day and wait to sell them tomorrow! The iPads alone will net me 10,000 of that budget. No way am I going to sell them after I've made todays goal.
This is just one of many different scenarios but they all are very similar. Should I hold iPads in the back until it looks like we may not hit budget? Should I hold them off for tomorrows monster budget? Should I sell them to go over budget and be tops for the day in the district? Etc, etc, etc.
And I'm telling you that it doesn't matter if you are 15K over one day and 15K light the other day. At the end of the month, its even.
It's very simple really. Each day a retail outlet like Best Buy has a budget they want to hit. Even though it depends on local let's call it $75,000. Now let's say in this very high pressure competitive environment I have already made budget but know that tomorrow my budget is going to be $100,000. I'm a little nervous about hitting that but know that I got like 15 iPads sitting in the back. Very simple solution. Do not sell anymore iPads for the day and wait to sell them tomorrow! The iPads alone will net me 10,000 of that budget. No way am I going to sell them after I've made todays goal.
This is just one of many different scenarios but they all are very similar. Should I hold iPads in the back until it looks like we may not hit budget? Should I hold them off for tomorrows monster budget? Should I sell them to go over budget and be tops for the day in the district? Etc, etc, etc.
And I'm telling you that it doesn't matter if you are 15K over one day and 15K light the other day. At the end of the month, its even.
MacRumorUser
Nov 26, 05:42 PM
Hired it. Meh. It's not going to win any new audience. Car damage is still a joke and the idea of a racing simulation that still feels like I'm driving a bumper car for the most part just leaves me cold. I won't be buying and I'm glad I hired.
MrCrowbar
Aug 19, 06:08 PM
!!!! DON'T DO THE SMC FIRMWARE UPDATE !!!!
Sorry to post it here, but I think it's urgent.
This update "fixes" tha Macbook fans. After the update, they (the fans) basically run at full speed all the time. They only stop once your CPU is below 50°C.
Sorry to post it here, but I think it's urgent.
This update "fixes" tha Macbook fans. After the update, they (the fans) basically run at full speed all the time. They only stop once your CPU is below 50°C.
sysiphus
Mar 21, 02:39 PM
It is in fact somewhat problematic. At present, the government is basically run by moneyed interests that supply the funding needed for the candidates to get into office (so that they can shower favours upon their benefactors and sponsors). This is the sixth check/balance, which was not literally codified but has become standard via legal precedent. Those of us who feel that real change is called for still support the (p)resident because he is the one least likely to enact tragic "progress". The system is, nonetheless, dreadfully broken. The idiots that I hold in serious contention are either marginalized into submission or holding seats of power, a situation that serves only to amplify our division, to our detriment.
I see your point. Personally, I'd been hoping Obama might hold ground on issues such as torture/surveillance/getting out of wars, and was fully prepared to accept fiscal policies I would hate (as a conservative--NOT a Republican, mind you) if we'd get some of the aforementioned issues. Gave up on any hope of that when PATRIOT got extended, though...on a few social issues (gay rights) Obama has distinguished himself admirably from his predecessor. However, in the big picture, we've still got a shill for big business and big government/brother, who is overextending the American military with conflicts in which we cannot afford to participate. /end rant
I see your point. Personally, I'd been hoping Obama might hold ground on issues such as torture/surveillance/getting out of wars, and was fully prepared to accept fiscal policies I would hate (as a conservative--NOT a Republican, mind you) if we'd get some of the aforementioned issues. Gave up on any hope of that when PATRIOT got extended, though...on a few social issues (gay rights) Obama has distinguished himself admirably from his predecessor. However, in the big picture, we've still got a shill for big business and big government/brother, who is overextending the American military with conflicts in which we cannot afford to participate. /end rant
NoSmokingBandit
Dec 10, 07:07 PM
I finished the Sebastien Loeb Challenge. It was incredible.
I got a few decent shots along the way. I have more but i got tired of the copy/paste routine.
I think they turned out alright, its the first time i've actually played with all of the settings.
Clicky for 1920x1080
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/EigerNordwandKTrail.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/ChamonixMain.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/Toscana.jpg
(it was in the middle of the day. filters are fun)
I got a few decent shots along the way. I have more but i got tired of the copy/paste routine.
I think they turned out alright, its the first time i've actually played with all of the settings.
Clicky for 1920x1080
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/EigerNordwandKTrail.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/ChamonixMain.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/canada2113/gt5/Toscana.jpg
(it was in the middle of the day. filters are fun)
leekohler
Mar 1, 07:47 AM
It's amazing how the message can be impacted so much by where it is coming from. If leekohler would have said "I'm chronically gay," many of us might've gotten a chuckle out of it. ;)
The sheer willful ignorance is astounding. People like this do not want to understand others who are different from them. They want to remain ignorant.
The sheer willful ignorance is astounding. People like this do not want to understand others who are different from them. They want to remain ignorant.
GQB
Mar 31, 05:10 PM
Good. I hope they take one of the last strengths of the iPad ecosystem away from it.
If you're going to spew nonsense, at least make it relevant to the thread.
If you're going to spew nonsense, at least make it relevant to the thread.
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