ksz
Sep 20, 04:11 PM
The only real downside I see is that Intel Macs are unlikely to hold their value anywhere near as well as the PPC line did due to the quicker changes we'll see now.
I keep systems til they fall apart, pretty much, but there's quite a few on the various forums who say they always buy and sell 2-3 years later to upgrade.
I should have been more thorough in my previous reply. What I really like about these frequent updates are the following:
1. The motherboard has socketed processors (except for the laptops).
2. Even though Intel is updating processors every 6 months or so, the motherboard and chipset seem to support the next processor version.
Yonah can be replaced with Merom.
Woodcrest can be replaced with Clovertown.
Your computer does not become obsolete in 6 months. Instead, it gains new life if you decide that you need the new processor.
Every 12 to 18 months or so a new chipset may become necessary. Only then does your computer lose the upgrade potential. If you buy Merom, you may not be able to upgrade to the next processor. Likewise if you buy Clovertown. New chipsets will be required beyond Merom and Clovertown.
In any event, this is based on trailing history of just 1 year. Future events may unfold differently.
I keep systems til they fall apart, pretty much, but there's quite a few on the various forums who say they always buy and sell 2-3 years later to upgrade.
I should have been more thorough in my previous reply. What I really like about these frequent updates are the following:
1. The motherboard has socketed processors (except for the laptops).
2. Even though Intel is updating processors every 6 months or so, the motherboard and chipset seem to support the next processor version.
Yonah can be replaced with Merom.
Woodcrest can be replaced with Clovertown.
Your computer does not become obsolete in 6 months. Instead, it gains new life if you decide that you need the new processor.
Every 12 to 18 months or so a new chipset may become necessary. Only then does your computer lose the upgrade potential. If you buy Merom, you may not be able to upgrade to the next processor. Likewise if you buy Clovertown. New chipsets will be required beyond Merom and Clovertown.
In any event, this is based on trailing history of just 1 year. Future events may unfold differently.
barkomatic
Apr 11, 11:37 AM
If the iPhone 5 has a bigger screen and 4G connectivity it will be worth it. I can't imagine Apple will release another phone with only 3G with all these Verizon 4G phones coming onto the market.
amin
Sep 14, 10:08 PM
AnandTech is putting a lot of emphasis on this FB-DIMM issue. Their Conroe vs Xeon comparisons are poor given that they maximize the FB-DIMM latency "problem" by using a Mac Pro with only two RAM slots occupied. Seems as though they have an agenda to exaggerate the importance of this technical issue.
epitaphic
Sep 13, 12:47 PM
Anyone seen this?
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/1775_large_longtermroadmap.png
The real architecture changes are coming June then June then June 2012. With derivatives in the years between.
So Merom(Merom Santa Rosa)/Conroe/Woodcrest(Clovertown) are the end of the road of separate chips. No more mobile/desktop/sever chip... all are the same (should expect mobiles to have the lowest MHz, then desktop, then toping out with server)
And what's interesting is that each architecture change will be a leap in performance similar to Pentium D to Conroe transition. (source) (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2649)
Screw Tigerton, Penryn's next (probably June 2007)
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/1775_large_longtermroadmap.png
The real architecture changes are coming June then June then June 2012. With derivatives in the years between.
So Merom(Merom Santa Rosa)/Conroe/Woodcrest(Clovertown) are the end of the road of separate chips. No more mobile/desktop/sever chip... all are the same (should expect mobiles to have the lowest MHz, then desktop, then toping out with server)
And what's interesting is that each architecture change will be a leap in performance similar to Pentium D to Conroe transition. (source) (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2649)
Screw Tigerton, Penryn's next (probably June 2007)
ChickenSwartz
Aug 27, 08:24 AM
Not true.
Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.
There is a strategic reason for this. Since there have been some issues with new Macs, this promotion will motivate some buyers not to wait. In the retail world waiting means there is a bigger chance the buyer will go else where (like to Dell or something). I am sure if you look at the profit on a Nano vs. a Mac you will see that if this promotion sells 1 Mac that wouldn't be sold without the promotion makes up for 5 or so Nanos that went with Macs that would have been sold anyway. This promotion is not cutting into Apple's profits; they are making more money off this.
Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.
There is a strategic reason for this. Since there have been some issues with new Macs, this promotion will motivate some buyers not to wait. In the retail world waiting means there is a bigger chance the buyer will go else where (like to Dell or something). I am sure if you look at the profit on a Nano vs. a Mac you will see that if this promotion sells 1 Mac that wouldn't be sold without the promotion makes up for 5 or so Nanos that went with Macs that would have been sold anyway. This promotion is not cutting into Apple's profits; they are making more money off this.
Dalton63841
Apr 8, 04:18 AM
As best as I can figure, it works like this. Managers get good grades if they sell certain amounts of products.
I'll use low numbers here. Let's say BB corporate wants you to sell at least 5 iPads a day to make your "Quota". One day, 10 iPads come in. You sell all ten, yay, you made quota for the day.
But the next day, none get shipped to the store. So, boo, you didn't make quota, since you didn't have any to sell.
So, if you get 10 the day after that, & not knowing if more are coming tomorrow, you sell 5, make quota, and hold the other 5 for the next day when, low and behold, none get shipped to the store. You still have 5 left over to sell, which you do, and again you make quota for the day.
Basically the more days you make quota, the happier BB corporate is, and the better chance Mr. Manager gets a bonus down the road.
Mr. Manager (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4DMPmoJkJQ)
This guy has a firm understanding of how retail chains work. This is EXACTLY the case and how MOST major chains operate.
I'll use low numbers here. Let's say BB corporate wants you to sell at least 5 iPads a day to make your "Quota". One day, 10 iPads come in. You sell all ten, yay, you made quota for the day.
But the next day, none get shipped to the store. So, boo, you didn't make quota, since you didn't have any to sell.
So, if you get 10 the day after that, & not knowing if more are coming tomorrow, you sell 5, make quota, and hold the other 5 for the next day when, low and behold, none get shipped to the store. You still have 5 left over to sell, which you do, and again you make quota for the day.
Basically the more days you make quota, the happier BB corporate is, and the better chance Mr. Manager gets a bonus down the road.
Mr. Manager (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4DMPmoJkJQ)
This guy has a firm understanding of how retail chains work. This is EXACTLY the case and how MOST major chains operate.
cbronfman
Apr 11, 06:44 PM
Doesn't this make sense? I think I'm close, I'm sure I forgot something / not perfectly accurate, but this seems like what Apple is shooting for. Makes sense to me...
Jan: iPhone (like original)
Mar: iPad
May: iMac/MacPro
June/Jul: Software
Sept: iPods
Nov: Laptops
The original iPhone which I purchased was released on June 29th, 2007 (I guess - wow that's a while ago) although it was announced much earlier.
Jan: iPhone (like original)
Mar: iPad
May: iMac/MacPro
June/Jul: Software
Sept: iPods
Nov: Laptops
The original iPhone which I purchased was released on June 29th, 2007 (I guess - wow that's a while ago) although it was announced much earlier.
2IS
Apr 8, 08:24 PM
Intel forced nVidia out of the chipset business. :p Which is what led to this whole GPU downgrade for Sandy Bridge equipped Macs with IGPs.
Well then allow me to be the broken record...
Intel isn't forcing anything. Mac Book pro's are using Sandy Bridge AND have a separate graphics chipset. :rolleyes:
Well then allow me to be the broken record...
Intel isn't forcing anything. Mac Book pro's are using Sandy Bridge AND have a separate graphics chipset. :rolleyes:
inhrntlyunstabl
Apr 27, 09:52 AM
This is a lie
Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?
At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
A white truck just drove by my house. Was this your truck? How is me looking outside the window and seeing some anonymous truck tracking that individual's location?!
Grow up and get smart!
Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?
At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
A white truck just drove by my house. Was this your truck? How is me looking outside the window and seeing some anonymous truck tracking that individual's location?!
Grow up and get smart!
Alexsaru
Sep 13, 06:54 AM
I was interested to see that they were unable to max out CPU utilization on all 8 cores in the system. I hope it's due to the software these days not being ready to fully utilize more than one or two cores and not due to OSX's ability to scale to larger core counts. Since that's obviously where we're heading. Does anyone know about the potential for scalability of OSX to large numbers of CPU's/cores? I know some *nix varieties and BSD varieties do this really well, but one wonders if they were thinking this far in the future when they developed OSX. It'll be interesting to see...
epitaphic
Sep 13, 02:00 PM
I think you've misunderstood. Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are one microarch now. That's Intel's point -- the core is essentially the same.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
Conroe and its derivatives are a step away from Intel's former flagship NetBurst, but even these processors are a bit of a dying breed: during Intel's shift to 45nm, the company will no longer focus on derived microprocessor cores in favor of refined unified core architectures.
So what do you think they meant with M/C/W being a derived arch and Penryn,etc being unified archs?
From what I understood, they'll stop having different characteristics (FSB,RAM,Cache) and instead just differentiate them with MHz and core count. Hence all the stories that future Intel chips (starting with Penryn I presume) won't use FSB.
bad03xtreme
Apr 19, 01:42 PM
I love to being my night with a good beer.
gnasher729
Apr 20, 12:37 PM
No they werent, what apple describes was already shows and build BEFORE iphone. If any apple basicly admits they copied it themselves and should get sued.
Who says? Some people refer to the Samsung F700, but that was shown for the first time a month after the iPhone, and released about five months after the iPhone. (Faked images by Android fanboys won't count in court).
Who says? Some people refer to the Samsung F700, but that was shown for the first time a month after the iPhone, and released about five months after the iPhone. (Faked images by Android fanboys won't count in court).
KnightWRX
Mar 23, 06:11 AM
Well, you only need to look at what happened with the gameboy to see that competition is good.
After seeing off the game gear and lynx, the gameboy stagnated for almost a decade. How long did it take before there was a colour version? Years, yet we've seen some great revisions since the PSP was announced.
Internet Explorer 6. Case closed on "competition is good". Seriously, that anyone would doubt it at this point is baffling.
After seeing off the game gear and lynx, the gameboy stagnated for almost a decade. How long did it take before there was a colour version? Years, yet we've seen some great revisions since the PSP was announced.
Internet Explorer 6. Case closed on "competition is good". Seriously, that anyone would doubt it at this point is baffling.
TripHop
Jun 10, 05:55 PM
Gazelle (http://www.gazelle.com/) buys old iPhones too. :)
Cachiro
Apr 6, 04:10 PM
There is one thing some people don't see, this is one company against an entire army of companies & this one company is doing a hole lot better. Apple will alway be on top when it comes to all this type of gadget get over it people and by the way, I always thought this was Mac rumor forum.
Maybe they should change there name :apple: :D
Maybe they should change there name :apple: :D
Popeye206
Apr 25, 02:58 PM
This...
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.
You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.
Same on the iPhone... this is not what we're talking about here. Application tracking has always been opt in or out.
This is just a database of cell tower pings. That's all. it's shared with NO ONE and goes nowhere except on your phone. It's like your web browser cache.
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.
You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.
Same on the iPhone... this is not what we're talking about here. Application tracking has always been opt in or out.
This is just a database of cell tower pings. That's all. it's shared with NO ONE and goes nowhere except on your phone. It's like your web browser cache.
z4n3
Apr 25, 03:55 PM
My PERSONAL view!
I think this is all just media hype, if people were to think about this a little bit and put the Apple aside maybe there would not be so many rants on this thread.
We are all tracked every day! by the Telcos, credit card companies, ATM`s, immigration and customs, Airlines, etc. etc.
The only real people that this should bother are criminals, and you know that no criminal has a mobile phone in his real name or on his person, not even satellite phones.. as mobile phones have always been able to be tracked via the telcos cell towers! so this is nothing new, just because it has the magic letter "i" before it iTrackU is kicking up a storm, but as the saying goes all publicity is good publicity, and nobody can trump Apple on this front. I for one could not give a rats A*** what they do with my GPS coordinates, as the Tax office, My telco companies, and Bank have more details on me that what this file has.
I think this is all just media hype, if people were to think about this a little bit and put the Apple aside maybe there would not be so many rants on this thread.
We are all tracked every day! by the Telcos, credit card companies, ATM`s, immigration and customs, Airlines, etc. etc.
The only real people that this should bother are criminals, and you know that no criminal has a mobile phone in his real name or on his person, not even satellite phones.. as mobile phones have always been able to be tracked via the telcos cell towers! so this is nothing new, just because it has the magic letter "i" before it iTrackU is kicking up a storm, but as the saying goes all publicity is good publicity, and nobody can trump Apple on this front. I for one could not give a rats A*** what they do with my GPS coordinates, as the Tax office, My telco companies, and Bank have more details on me that what this file has.
rdowns
Apr 27, 09:20 AM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2711155/posts?q=1&;page=101
There you have it. The birthers aren't satisfied. I knew it.
Trump now wants to see and taste the after-birth before dropping the issue. :rolleyes:
There you have it. The birthers aren't satisfied. I knew it.
Trump now wants to see and taste the after-birth before dropping the issue. :rolleyes:
samcraig
Apr 27, 08:04 AM
I'm glad they're fixing this "bug"
But their response is utter crap. They know it - and now everyone knows it.
As reports came out over a year ago about this - it's only after this tremendous bad press that they "found" it. Mhhhmmmm sure.
But their response is utter crap. They know it - and now everyone knows it.
As reports came out over a year ago about this - it's only after this tremendous bad press that they "found" it. Mhhhmmmm sure.
Dan==
Jul 27, 02:00 PM
The Mac name will never work! It's just too generic. And Apple must be suicidal if they keep a Core Solo in the Mini. The Core Solo will NOT be priced dropped and offers very poor value for money compared to a low-end Merom or mid-range Yonah (after price drop).
I can't say much about the name. I'm not the first to offer it. But nothing else comes to mind that seems to fit well.
For the Mini, I'd much rather see a Duo in the bottom of line unit, but let's face it, there's a lot of clamouring for the return of a sub $500 dollar unit, and a Core 2 Duo won't be in it, at least not in the next 6 months anyway. I'd personally like to see a $499 unit with a Core 2 Yonah, but suspect a Solo is all that will be affordable. For the rest of the Mini's, we should see 2MB cache Merom's. They're gonna be the same prices!
It's true, I haven't seen any price cuts in print for the Solo, but they simply can't be kept the same (when the other processors start shipping). But, true, this is an assumption.
Pretty cool, but it needs a real name, MAC won't cut it. Maybe Mac Express?
And it wouldn't have FW800 or a second optical slot. Probably a second HD slot instead. And I'd guess it would be more of a pizza box enclosure, but that's wild speculation. Your price is probably way too low, too.
Thanks!
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's? What a pain to go to the HD first! Adding another slot for a HD would be great, but I think that'll be one of the differentiators with the Pro. (Hey, maybe one or the other.)
As far the price goes, why does someone always have to resist? At this price there is plenty more profit here than the Mini.
Here's what I wrote in a thread over at 123macmini.com
http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6896&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
However, these prices are, I think, pretty doable. They're based largely on what Apple already sells the Mini for. That cheaper Conroe processor is just about the same price as the Core Solo in the $600 Mini right now! (Well, when it was introduced, anyway.) 3.5" 160MB SATA drives are roughly the same price as 2.5" 60GB SATA drives, separate graphics are < $50, and I suspect that system slots, fans, FW800, and other interfaces wouldn't add more than $100 to the price of the system. (Think +$50 in profits over the Mini.)
That was before I included a number of things, including extra RAM, and a mouse/keyboard in the base model, and bumped the price $40. Also, the cheaper Conroe came out at $185 instead of $210 as was being considered.
I think a box like this at $999 would have $100 to $150 more profit than the Mini!
I can't say much about the name. I'm not the first to offer it. But nothing else comes to mind that seems to fit well.
For the Mini, I'd much rather see a Duo in the bottom of line unit, but let's face it, there's a lot of clamouring for the return of a sub $500 dollar unit, and a Core 2 Duo won't be in it, at least not in the next 6 months anyway. I'd personally like to see a $499 unit with a Core 2 Yonah, but suspect a Solo is all that will be affordable. For the rest of the Mini's, we should see 2MB cache Merom's. They're gonna be the same prices!
It's true, I haven't seen any price cuts in print for the Solo, but they simply can't be kept the same (when the other processors start shipping). But, true, this is an assumption.
Pretty cool, but it needs a real name, MAC won't cut it. Maybe Mac Express?
And it wouldn't have FW800 or a second optical slot. Probably a second HD slot instead. And I'd guess it would be more of a pizza box enclosure, but that's wild speculation. Your price is probably way too low, too.
Thanks!
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's? What a pain to go to the HD first! Adding another slot for a HD would be great, but I think that'll be one of the differentiators with the Pro. (Hey, maybe one or the other.)
As far the price goes, why does someone always have to resist? At this price there is plenty more profit here than the Mini.
Here's what I wrote in a thread over at 123macmini.com
http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6896&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
However, these prices are, I think, pretty doable. They're based largely on what Apple already sells the Mini for. That cheaper Conroe processor is just about the same price as the Core Solo in the $600 Mini right now! (Well, when it was introduced, anyway.) 3.5" 160MB SATA drives are roughly the same price as 2.5" 60GB SATA drives, separate graphics are < $50, and I suspect that system slots, fans, FW800, and other interfaces wouldn't add more than $100 to the price of the system. (Think +$50 in profits over the Mini.)
That was before I included a number of things, including extra RAM, and a mouse/keyboard in the base model, and bumped the price $40. Also, the cheaper Conroe came out at $185 instead of $210 as was being considered.
I think a box like this at $999 would have $100 to $150 more profit than the Mini!
generik
Jul 15, 08:21 AM
1. Notice the power plug hole at the top? Now imagine a cord running out of it. Yup, there is a reason why Apple has put it at the bottom.
2. Top heavy.
There are advantages to having it on top too.
1) Hot air from components in the case rises to the top of the case..
2) Fan in PSU vents it out of system
2. Top heavy.
There are advantages to having it on top too.
1) Hot air from components in the case rises to the top of the case..
2) Fan in PSU vents it out of system
KnightWRX
Apr 20, 11:26 AM
Yeah, Apple is reaching a bit here.
I'd say even the icon grid claim is reaching. The pictures shown all show the Android application drawer. The actual home screen on Galaxy S devices, what shows up after unlocking, is not the icon grid with a dock. You have to dig into the phone to get to the grid of icons, which frankly again has been shown to be a pretty standard phone UI. Older Palm/Sony models had the "icon grid" UIs in their phones also. :
http://www.mobiledia.com/reviews/sonyericsson/t610/images/front.jpg
http://www.mobileincanada.com/images/unlock/att-palm-treo-600.jpg
Let's face it, the "icon grid" has been a UI for quite a while now :
http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/progman.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzzc53.png
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/filemanager/cde15solaris9.png
I'd say even the icon grid claim is reaching. The pictures shown all show the Android application drawer. The actual home screen on Galaxy S devices, what shows up after unlocking, is not the icon grid with a dock. You have to dig into the phone to get to the grid of icons, which frankly again has been shown to be a pretty standard phone UI. Older Palm/Sony models had the "icon grid" UIs in their phones also. :
http://www.mobiledia.com/reviews/sonyericsson/t610/images/front.jpg
http://www.mobileincanada.com/images/unlock/att-palm-treo-600.jpg
Let's face it, the "icon grid" has been a UI for quite a while now :
http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/progman.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzzc53.png
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/filemanager/cde15solaris9.png
~Shard~
Jul 15, 01:31 PM
The point is that Apple doesn't have an option for potential buyers that want a high performance, customisable and upgradable consumer level product (not all-in-one). There are no Apple product to compare those $1199 Conroe PCs to. The closest thing is the iMac.
Exactly. As I said above, a PowerMac is overkill (on both price and power) for many users. The iMac might suit their needs from this perspective, however many people do not like the fact that they are not upgradeable (apart from the RAM). What if I want a larger HDD in my iMac? What if I want two HDDs? What if I want to swap in a new burner? What if the HDD fails? It would be nice to pop a new one in, not have to buy a whole new machine. And then there's the display. If the HDD goes, as in my example above, how many people would like to throw away that nice 20" display which still works perfectly? Or, vice versa, what if the display goes? The rest of the computer is perfectly fine...
A Conroe mini-tower would be perfect for many people. The gap between Mac mini/iMac and PowerMac is simply too large for many people. :cool:
Exactly. As I said above, a PowerMac is overkill (on both price and power) for many users. The iMac might suit their needs from this perspective, however many people do not like the fact that they are not upgradeable (apart from the RAM). What if I want a larger HDD in my iMac? What if I want two HDDs? What if I want to swap in a new burner? What if the HDD fails? It would be nice to pop a new one in, not have to buy a whole new machine. And then there's the display. If the HDD goes, as in my example above, how many people would like to throw away that nice 20" display which still works perfectly? Or, vice versa, what if the display goes? The rest of the computer is perfectly fine...
A Conroe mini-tower would be perfect for many people. The gap between Mac mini/iMac and PowerMac is simply too large for many people. :cool:
No comments:
Post a Comment