clintob
Oct 25, 10:26 PM
This is starting to sound like the war of the razors...
Anyone remember when the Mach-3 came out, and everyone thought "wow... three blades. that's a lot!" Now we're up to FIVE... and an extra one on the back.
Just more proof positive that when it comes to Apple you should buy when you need, and enjoy what you've got, cause in two months it'll be replaced anyway.
... okay, I'm done. Eight cores is pretty wild. ;)
Anyone remember when the Mach-3 came out, and everyone thought "wow... three blades. that's a lot!" Now we're up to FIVE... and an extra one on the back.
Just more proof positive that when it comes to Apple you should buy when you need, and enjoy what you've got, cause in two months it'll be replaced anyway.
... okay, I'm done. Eight cores is pretty wild. ;)
appleguy123
Apr 10, 10:52 AM
Things I miss from Windows:
Select an item, push shift, and select another to select those two items and everything between them.
Mac OS X does do this. Did you even try it?
Select an item, push shift, and select another to select those two items and everything between them.
Mac OS X does do this. Did you even try it?
franswa za
Apr 9, 02:38 AM
Apple will buy Nintendo eventually.
It's over for Nintendo.
Get ready for the iwii
+1
and the ipipi
:D
It's over for Nintendo.
Get ready for the iwii
+1
and the ipipi
:D
Liquorpuki
Mar 14, 06:20 PM
I beg to differ: your electricity consumption is shocking too. It's all that AC. We Brits always made do with punkah wallahs. Useful local employment opportunities and saves on polluting the atmosphere, too. You have a ready supply of "illegals" who would jump at the chance.
Then you're probably more shocked at the Canadians, Norwegians, and Swedes, who consume more power per person than Americans do. Iceland consumes twice as much per person than us. And they don't even use AC.
Then you're probably more shocked at the Canadians, Norwegians, and Swedes, who consume more power per person than Americans do. Iceland consumes twice as much per person than us. And they don't even use AC.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 29, 02:59 PM
The point is that Greenpeace opposes ALL R&D into GM foods, just as G.W. opposes ALL R&D into stem cell research, including research to use stem cells w/o harming the fetus.
First, R&D should never be banned. However, we should not implement everything we find out in our labs. It is a huge difference in getting to know how we can alter the genetical code and actually do it in a grand scale. THAT if anything will be our end.
Stem cells is an entirely different story. That is a political/religious question about when life begins and also OT.
First, R&D should never be banned. However, we should not implement everything we find out in our labs. It is a huge difference in getting to know how we can alter the genetical code and actually do it in a grand scale. THAT if anything will be our end.
Stem cells is an entirely different story. That is a political/religious question about when life begins and also OT.
GGJstudios
May 2, 04:38 PM
Cutting a deal with a hacker, if we can get one who's up high enough ...
This sounds like you're under the mistaken impression that hackers are members of some kind of organization or ranking.... they're not. They are, for the most part, quite independent. There's no such thing as "Hacker, Class 3" or "Hacker, Class 1". Also, not all hackers write malware and not all malware writers are hackers. The more you offer such statements, the more you reveal that you have no idea what you're talking about.
This sounds like you're under the mistaken impression that hackers are members of some kind of organization or ranking.... they're not. They are, for the most part, quite independent. There's no such thing as "Hacker, Class 3" or "Hacker, Class 1". Also, not all hackers write malware and not all malware writers are hackers. The more you offer such statements, the more you reveal that you have no idea what you're talking about.
brianus
Sep 26, 02:19 PM
If what you say is true, then yes that would be IT. Why won't Tigerton go in Summer '07 Mac Pros?
This was epitaphic's explanation:
Intel has two lines of Xeon processors:
* The 5000 series is DP (dual processor, like Woodcrest, Clovertown)
* The 7000 series MP (multi processor - eg 4+ processors)
Tigerton is supposed to be an MP version of Clovertown. Meaning, you can have as many chips as the motherboard supports, and just like Clovertown its an MCM (two processors in one package). 7000's are also about 5-10x the price of 5000's.
So unless the specs for Tigerton severely change, no point even considering it on a Mac Pro (high end xserve is plausible).
(gotta love that arbitrary terminology, huh? -- 2 processors apparently isn't "multiple").
This was epitaphic's explanation:
Intel has two lines of Xeon processors:
* The 5000 series is DP (dual processor, like Woodcrest, Clovertown)
* The 7000 series MP (multi processor - eg 4+ processors)
Tigerton is supposed to be an MP version of Clovertown. Meaning, you can have as many chips as the motherboard supports, and just like Clovertown its an MCM (two processors in one package). 7000's are also about 5-10x the price of 5000's.
So unless the specs for Tigerton severely change, no point even considering it on a Mac Pro (high end xserve is plausible).
(gotta love that arbitrary terminology, huh? -- 2 processors apparently isn't "multiple").
chrono1081
May 2, 08:52 PM
Mac OS X fanboys really need to stop clinging to the mentality that "viruses" don't exist for OS X and that "malware" is a Windows-only problem. Who cares if viruses don't exist for OS X? News flash: viruses aren't all that common on Windows anymore. They just aren't. Phishing, Spear Phishing, trojans, and social engineering are much more cost- and time-effective ways to breach a computer's security.
So no matter what you call "MACDefender," it's a problem. One that's not likely to be caught by a user who has been fed the Koolaid that malware is a Windows problem and that they don't need to be aware.
Can you for once write something truthful? Why are you even here. Windows viruses are more rampant than ever before, trust me I remove them for a living and it eats up a good chunk of my work week.
As for your constant "fanboy" comments I think calling people "fanboys" should get you the ban hammer. No one wants to hear it anymore. They just don't. Oh, and for the "koolaid" cliche? Real original :rolleyes: Haven't heard that a million times.
You obviously know nothing about Windows or Mac if you honestly believe the FUD you constantly put on this forum.
So no matter what you call "MACDefender," it's a problem. One that's not likely to be caught by a user who has been fed the Koolaid that malware is a Windows problem and that they don't need to be aware.
Can you for once write something truthful? Why are you even here. Windows viruses are more rampant than ever before, trust me I remove them for a living and it eats up a good chunk of my work week.
As for your constant "fanboy" comments I think calling people "fanboys" should get you the ban hammer. No one wants to hear it anymore. They just don't. Oh, and for the "koolaid" cliche? Real original :rolleyes: Haven't heard that a million times.
You obviously know nothing about Windows or Mac if you honestly believe the FUD you constantly put on this forum.
AppliedVisual
Oct 14, 02:55 AM
I am so glad you tried and succeeded in getting that discount. That's great. Hope you didn't suffer too much brain damage ripping on that sales rep. Wish I could have heard that. lol. :p
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
spicyapple
Sep 20, 12:46 AM
The hard drive (if not used as DVR) will likely be used as temporary storage buffer. So if you buy a movie off iTS, it automatically streams to iTV and saved to the hard drive until you consume it.
theelysium
May 16, 05:52 PM
I have a huge drop call and coverage issue at my new home in Rancho Cordova, CA. I live by Jackson HWY (16). I have been excessive with my reports through my AT&T iPhone app "Mark The Spot". After 6 months of reports for only about 10% of the issues (I have so many issue here 10% was a lot :eek: of reporting!) I've experience they sent me a message letting me know that my reports helped pinpoint a tower issues and it will be replaced in a few weeks!
I know AT&T has issues, but I'd like to see if Verizon would actually do something like this! I am not happy with the network experience I've had here, but I am really happy to see that my voice was heard from a large company using innovative tools created by them on my iPhone.
I can tell that the tower is currently being worked on, because my service is getting worse. It won't be long now that I'll finally be able to a constant signal and hopefully no more dropped calls.
Before I received the message that they would replace the tower I ordered an AT&T micro cell. I think I'll install it anyway just to see how it will improve my coverage. This also brings up another point that they are giving us the ability to fix coverage issues with the Micro Cell they are offering. I know it's $150 (expensive), but at least they are offering an alternative for you.
One thing I've noticed as a customer is any aspect of the New AT&T that was legacy Cingular seems in the most part to be fine. It's all the junk they merged in from the legacy AT&T Wireless. This goes for call centers, towers, policies, etc. If I call customer service and have an excellent experience I'll ask the rep, "Are you legacy Cingluar or AT&T?" Every time they say Cingular. Of course if I have the opposite and ask "Are you legacy Cingluar or AT&T?" They either don't know what the word legacy means (which I then have to explain) or they say of course AT&T! I wish Cingular stayed Cingular and let AT&T die off! Legacy AT&T is the cancer in the New AT&T which is just Cingular with AT&T's name.
It's silly to think that the AT&T name is so valuable that they'd buy the crappy company just to use their stupid :eek: name. Who cares if AT&T is as recognizable as Coca Cola overseas?! Why not be so great at what you do that your name (Cingular), becomes as recognizable as Coca Cola! Cingular shouldn't have bought recognition... they should have tried to earn it! If they had tried to earn their recognition we wouldn't have Legacy AT&T's cancer in our cell phone company!:(
I know AT&T has issues, but I'd like to see if Verizon would actually do something like this! I am not happy with the network experience I've had here, but I am really happy to see that my voice was heard from a large company using innovative tools created by them on my iPhone.
I can tell that the tower is currently being worked on, because my service is getting worse. It won't be long now that I'll finally be able to a constant signal and hopefully no more dropped calls.
Before I received the message that they would replace the tower I ordered an AT&T micro cell. I think I'll install it anyway just to see how it will improve my coverage. This also brings up another point that they are giving us the ability to fix coverage issues with the Micro Cell they are offering. I know it's $150 (expensive), but at least they are offering an alternative for you.
One thing I've noticed as a customer is any aspect of the New AT&T that was legacy Cingular seems in the most part to be fine. It's all the junk they merged in from the legacy AT&T Wireless. This goes for call centers, towers, policies, etc. If I call customer service and have an excellent experience I'll ask the rep, "Are you legacy Cingluar or AT&T?" Every time they say Cingular. Of course if I have the opposite and ask "Are you legacy Cingluar or AT&T?" They either don't know what the word legacy means (which I then have to explain) or they say of course AT&T! I wish Cingular stayed Cingular and let AT&T die off! Legacy AT&T is the cancer in the New AT&T which is just Cingular with AT&T's name.
It's silly to think that the AT&T name is so valuable that they'd buy the crappy company just to use their stupid :eek: name. Who cares if AT&T is as recognizable as Coca Cola overseas?! Why not be so great at what you do that your name (Cingular), becomes as recognizable as Coca Cola! Cingular shouldn't have bought recognition... they should have tried to earn it! If they had tried to earn their recognition we wouldn't have Legacy AT&T's cancer in our cell phone company!:(
diamond.g
Apr 21, 09:00 AM
How exactly did AT&T have a walled garden, at least in the same sense as Apple? Normally I'm against that much control, but I don't think it bothers me as much because there are other options.
I'd probably be less okay with Apple's garden if my choices were only Apple, and I've been a fan of/user of since OS 7. AT&T had less of a walled garden than Verizon. But the approach is more obvious if you look at phones being branded and carrier apps loaded (things the iPhone doesn't have done to it). Plus, in the case of Android phones, no side loading and tethering (which works by default in the OS) is turned off unless you pay (same as Apple).
This is a bad example, usually you pay a toll BECAUSE tax money was not used OR to fund half(or more) of the project.
French President Nicolas
French President Nicolas
nicolas sarkozy wife carla.
French President Nicolas
French President Nicolas Sarkozy chats with wife
french president nicolas
French President Nicolas
I'd probably be less okay with Apple's garden if my choices were only Apple, and I've been a fan of/user of since OS 7. AT&T had less of a walled garden than Verizon. But the approach is more obvious if you look at phones being branded and carrier apps loaded (things the iPhone doesn't have done to it). Plus, in the case of Android phones, no side loading and tethering (which works by default in the OS) is turned off unless you pay (same as Apple).
This is a bad example, usually you pay a toll BECAUSE tax money was not used OR to fund half(or more) of the project.
Sydde
Mar 26, 01:43 AM
Love conquers all until it hits a rough patch
au revoir
My parents had two children. They (mom & dad) were good Christians (not Catholics, though). They hit a "rough patch". До свидание. Your anecdotes are meaningless BS. Religious devotion + children + love < stability.
au revoir
My parents had two children. They (mom & dad) were good Christians (not Catholics, though). They hit a "rough patch". До свидание. Your anecdotes are meaningless BS. Religious devotion + children + love < stability.
mdntcallr
Sep 12, 03:26 PM
While this certainly is a nice interface to a entertainment system.
this certainly isnt a full function media center.
Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?
Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?
hey just asking. i know blu-ray is just getting started, but i'd like apple to be on it from the get go.
this certainly isnt a full function media center.
Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?
Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?
hey just asking. i know blu-ray is just getting started, but i'd like apple to be on it from the get go.
Backtothemac
Oct 7, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
MrMacman:
Perhaps you missed it the first few times around, but Athlons are available at speeds of 2400+ (2.0ghz) and there are even a few 2600+ (2.13ghz) models out there. Why does it matter if they overclocked an old Athlon to 1.6ghz? Tell you what, to make it fair why don't we add in my overclocked dual 800?
Jesus you still don't get it. If you compare Apples to Apples, the 1.6GHZ Dual Athlon is still slower in apps that are multi processor aware. Now, how about the PIV? How does that stack up? The x86 is garbage. Any real IT director would know that.
The point that I was making was that the testing was flawed.
And pc's suck.
MrMacman:
Perhaps you missed it the first few times around, but Athlons are available at speeds of 2400+ (2.0ghz) and there are even a few 2600+ (2.13ghz) models out there. Why does it matter if they overclocked an old Athlon to 1.6ghz? Tell you what, to make it fair why don't we add in my overclocked dual 800?
Jesus you still don't get it. If you compare Apples to Apples, the 1.6GHZ Dual Athlon is still slower in apps that are multi processor aware. Now, how about the PIV? How does that stack up? The x86 is garbage. Any real IT director would know that.
The point that I was making was that the testing was flawed.
And pc's suck.
CaryMacGuy
May 5, 04:20 PM
I consistantly drop calls. I will be just sitting in the living room or in a bedroom and BOOM call drop. I am not even moving around and a call will drop. It is really frustrating.
neko girl
Mar 25, 10:16 AM
PS Marriage is a privilege not a right.
No, it's a right. The United States continues to violate human rights. Not a new phenomenon, your opinion or how this country is.
No, it's a right. The United States continues to violate human rights. Not a new phenomenon, your opinion or how this country is.
shamino
Mar 18, 03:50 PM
The interesting thing here is that this hack doesn't violate the DMCA. It violates the iTunes shrink-wrap license, but that's only enforceable in VA and MD.
The DMCA doesn't allow breaking encryption. So saving a data stream that is sent unencrypted from a legal distributor doesn't violate this law.
Apple's "fix" for this is fairly simple. Send the files in an ecrypted form. In order to maximize caching, use a common key that all iTunes clients have built-in, sort of like DVDs and CES. The client can then decrypt with the common key and re-encrypt with the DRM key.
This doesn't make it any more difficult for a creating programmer to capture the stream and remove the common encryption without applying DRM, but it does mean that he has to decrypt something in the process. Which makes it into a DMCA violation.
Of course, a new iTunes update will be required to make this happen, but this wouldn't be the first time Apple made a change to ITMS requiring an iTunes upgrade.
The DMCA doesn't allow breaking encryption. So saving a data stream that is sent unencrypted from a legal distributor doesn't violate this law.
Apple's "fix" for this is fairly simple. Send the files in an ecrypted form. In order to maximize caching, use a common key that all iTunes clients have built-in, sort of like DVDs and CES. The client can then decrypt with the common key and re-encrypt with the DRM key.
This doesn't make it any more difficult for a creating programmer to capture the stream and remove the common encryption without applying DRM, but it does mean that he has to decrypt something in the process. Which makes it into a DMCA violation.
Of course, a new iTunes update will be required to make this happen, but this wouldn't be the first time Apple made a change to ITMS requiring an iTunes upgrade.
Multimedia
Nov 3, 05:50 AM
Then show me the data that backs up your claim that the average consumer is archeiving HD broadcast recordings on their iMac.I never made such a claim. You completely misunderstand my meaning. I wrote that whole scenario to refute your opinion Software is behind Hardware and show that the opposite is true.
They aren't. That's my whole point. They aren't because they can't because the hardware is too weak. That was the entire point of my above post. That's why all these 8, 16 and then 32 core processors are so needed ASAP.
They aren't. That's my whole point. They aren't because they can't because the hardware is too weak. That was the entire point of my above post. That's why all these 8, 16 and then 32 core processors are so needed ASAP.
Jcoz
Mar 18, 11:40 AM
<soapbox -- move on if you are not interested>
It's you. He's right. I could care less about the whiners who say "I need 10GB per month to tether all my devices to my iPhone." I don't like subsidizing that. If you use that much data on your iPhone directly without tethering then more power to you -- that was AT&T's mistake for offering an unlimited plan.
But the "unlimited plan" they offered did not say "unlimited devices on one plan". It was very specifically restricted to the iPhone. To those who have cheated system, I applaud your brilliance for working around the rules. But when the rule maker starts cracking down on your circumvention crying that it is "unfair" is a bit comical.
Everybody signs a contact with their carriers when they get service. They sure as heck know what they are signing up for -- some of amount of money every month for some sort of access to their network with some set of limitations.
Sure, if you buy an iPhone it is yours. You can do what you want with it. However, your use of the carrier's network is subject to a contract with specific terms. If you don't like the terms then you don't need to agree to them. But if you choose to agree to them and try to cheat the carrier through unfair practices then don't expect others to be happy about subsidizing your practice through increased rates or degraded service.
The carrier is going to make their money one way or the other. They are a corporation driven by profits. Retail stores raise prices to compensate for shoplifting just like carriers raise rates to compensate for network expansion and lost customers due to network overload from those who circumvent the agreement they signed up for.
Any measure by the carrier to crack down on those who cheat the system is a welcome effort to those who choose not to cheat the system. They could be jerks and just decide that its not worth the effort to go after those folks and make everybody pay for it.
Do I believe that AT&T will drop their rates once they crack down on the bandwidth cheaters? Heck no. Do I believe that the network performance will get better for the rest of us without added monthly fees, probably. Either way, what's fair is fair. Nobody is born entitled to an iPhone and mobile data. But the sense of entitlement in this country has gotten so out of hand.
</soapbox>
What about tiered plan users being forced into 4gb plans that cost 50% more than 5gb iphone plans (aka unlimited)?
Why should ANYONE on a well defined data plan (non-unlimited) have to pay additional cost to use that data that was paid for?
It's you. He's right. I could care less about the whiners who say "I need 10GB per month to tether all my devices to my iPhone." I don't like subsidizing that. If you use that much data on your iPhone directly without tethering then more power to you -- that was AT&T's mistake for offering an unlimited plan.
But the "unlimited plan" they offered did not say "unlimited devices on one plan". It was very specifically restricted to the iPhone. To those who have cheated system, I applaud your brilliance for working around the rules. But when the rule maker starts cracking down on your circumvention crying that it is "unfair" is a bit comical.
Everybody signs a contact with their carriers when they get service. They sure as heck know what they are signing up for -- some of amount of money every month for some sort of access to their network with some set of limitations.
Sure, if you buy an iPhone it is yours. You can do what you want with it. However, your use of the carrier's network is subject to a contract with specific terms. If you don't like the terms then you don't need to agree to them. But if you choose to agree to them and try to cheat the carrier through unfair practices then don't expect others to be happy about subsidizing your practice through increased rates or degraded service.
The carrier is going to make their money one way or the other. They are a corporation driven by profits. Retail stores raise prices to compensate for shoplifting just like carriers raise rates to compensate for network expansion and lost customers due to network overload from those who circumvent the agreement they signed up for.
Any measure by the carrier to crack down on those who cheat the system is a welcome effort to those who choose not to cheat the system. They could be jerks and just decide that its not worth the effort to go after those folks and make everybody pay for it.
Do I believe that AT&T will drop their rates once they crack down on the bandwidth cheaters? Heck no. Do I believe that the network performance will get better for the rest of us without added monthly fees, probably. Either way, what's fair is fair. Nobody is born entitled to an iPhone and mobile data. But the sense of entitlement in this country has gotten so out of hand.
</soapbox>
What about tiered plan users being forced into 4gb plans that cost 50% more than 5gb iphone plans (aka unlimited)?
Why should ANYONE on a well defined data plan (non-unlimited) have to pay additional cost to use that data that was paid for?
NebulaClash
Apr 29, 07:54 AM
A reasonable question, AppleScruff. Indeed, my sample group includes staff, faculty, and students from different disciplines (including business/commerce, and engineering) at a university who use their Macs for research, graduate work, or lecture preparation; a prominent cardiologist at a large hospital; a financial advisor; professional musicians; and many others.
I am myself using a Mac in a business school seamlessly among my PC-using peers. There is nothing that they can do that I cannot - and many things I can do that they would have a difficult time doing in Windows. In fact, my colleagues have been so impressed that one has already made the switch recently, and another is preparing to switch as well. Those days of "needing to run Windows" for work are behind us.
That's been my observation in the business world as well. With projects often being Web-based now, Windows is becoming irrelevant. On one project with about twenty developers, systems architects and analysts, close to half were running Macbook Pros (no Windows installed) and doing very well. It's just not an issue for many office folks. Obviously there are some roles that still require Windows, but not as many as it used to be. The tech folks in particular seem to take great delight in moving to Macs. Times have changed.
I am myself using a Mac in a business school seamlessly among my PC-using peers. There is nothing that they can do that I cannot - and many things I can do that they would have a difficult time doing in Windows. In fact, my colleagues have been so impressed that one has already made the switch recently, and another is preparing to switch as well. Those days of "needing to run Windows" for work are behind us.
That's been my observation in the business world as well. With projects often being Web-based now, Windows is becoming irrelevant. On one project with about twenty developers, systems architects and analysts, close to half were running Macbook Pros (no Windows installed) and doing very well. It's just not an issue for many office folks. Obviously there are some roles that still require Windows, but not as many as it used to be. The tech folks in particular seem to take great delight in moving to Macs. Times have changed.
macenforcer
Jul 12, 12:20 AM
Have fun!
Already am. Thanks. :cool:
Already am. Thanks. :cool:
KnightWRX
May 2, 11:14 AM
The fight can't be won, it's useless... there will always be those people who go, "Oh my god... random email, you need my credit card, social security number, and my youngest child? Sure thing! Here you go!"
And then freak out because their bank accounts are all empty and their kid's running off with some 40 year old. It'll never end.
That's never been a reason to give up. I was raised on Shonen Anime. I don't know the meaning of the words "giving up". ;)
And then freak out because their bank accounts are all empty and their kid's running off with some 40 year old. It'll never end.
That's never been a reason to give up. I was raised on Shonen Anime. I don't know the meaning of the words "giving up". ;)
Howdr
Mar 18, 11:23 AM
People who complain that your service provider is going to make you follow the ru:eek:les unnerve me with their uncanny ability to disregard all that stands to reason with the sustainability of your "toys." They are like little sissies on the playground crying after a Barbie Doll has been taken from them. Those people should man up and start paying for the footprint they leave on the network.
WOW in plain English......... If you use a lot you should pay for it.
OK I agree
but AT&T are the ones who advertise Unlimited Data
Should they not "Man UP"? and stop this hiding behind definitions of nonsense in a contract.
Essentially the point many and I make is
we pay for Data that is contracted as unlimited,
At&t then has a contract that says its unlimited Data with us and then says they can decide when its abused.
OK using 5gb or less is not considered abuse by them, OK
But tethering 100mb of that 5gb is abuse even though it does not go over the usage and it makes no network difference to At&t
the problem is the contract itself is contradictory in how it is written and the enforcement of this issue is in huge suspect, At&t truly may not have one kb of proof that you tethered.
I see many problems with this.
Lawsuits? Class action maybe not individuals.
and it would have to be those paying for tethering and or charged a fine for doing so or forced into a tethering contract.
Not I, I have no emails nothing, = No harm.
WOW in plain English......... If you use a lot you should pay for it.
OK I agree
but AT&T are the ones who advertise Unlimited Data
Should they not "Man UP"? and stop this hiding behind definitions of nonsense in a contract.
Essentially the point many and I make is
we pay for Data that is contracted as unlimited,
At&t then has a contract that says its unlimited Data with us and then says they can decide when its abused.
OK using 5gb or less is not considered abuse by them, OK
But tethering 100mb of that 5gb is abuse even though it does not go over the usage and it makes no network difference to At&t
the problem is the contract itself is contradictory in how it is written and the enforcement of this issue is in huge suspect, At&t truly may not have one kb of proof that you tethered.
I see many problems with this.
Lawsuits? Class action maybe not individuals.
and it would have to be those paying for tethering and or charged a fine for doing so or forced into a tethering contract.
Not I, I have no emails nothing, = No harm.
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