theOtherGeoff
Mar 22, 04:55 PM
samsung designs and builds stuff in factories they OWN. Not all of their manufacturing is outsourced, unlike apple. Yes samsung provides ram, LCD (?), and A5 for apple's ipad. It was rumored that TSMC would also make A5 for apple so that apple is not so dependent on samsung but from what I saw in teardowns, samsung is still making some, if not all, of A5.
The difference is Samsung outsources it's OS development, it's developer community management, it's app ecosystem.
Cost competitive doesn't experience competitive.
I think for 'spec' people (hard core coders, corp types that need to control configuration), Samsung (and more importantly, when HP gets in the game HP), will compete there.... HOWEVER, this is a consumer run market, and much like a Sony WalkMan back in the day, or RollerBlades([tm]... the rest were 'inline skates'), Apple is 'defining' the market... and the rest are just knockoffs.
And unlike the old BMW pricing explanation(excuse) for Macs (equal specs and quality... from Apple HP and Dell are about the same in price) Apple is pushing iPad's experience at the BMW levels, but at Honda prices.
And RIM and samsung are pushing mid 80's GM quality against a 2012 BMW at honda prices, when the market will probably demand Kia prices for the 'experience'
The difference is Samsung outsources it's OS development, it's developer community management, it's app ecosystem.
Cost competitive doesn't experience competitive.
I think for 'spec' people (hard core coders, corp types that need to control configuration), Samsung (and more importantly, when HP gets in the game HP), will compete there.... HOWEVER, this is a consumer run market, and much like a Sony WalkMan back in the day, or RollerBlades([tm]... the rest were 'inline skates'), Apple is 'defining' the market... and the rest are just knockoffs.
And unlike the old BMW pricing explanation(excuse) for Macs (equal specs and quality... from Apple HP and Dell are about the same in price) Apple is pushing iPad's experience at the BMW levels, but at Honda prices.
And RIM and samsung are pushing mid 80's GM quality against a 2012 BMW at honda prices, when the market will probably demand Kia prices for the 'experience'
GregA
Apr 5, 06:06 PM
Would be grand if all this hype was for iMovie. :)
Apple needs to distinctly separate Final Cut Pro from consumer apps.
Personally as a Pro-sumer, I'd like to see iMovie align with the iPad version (use the timeline!) and sync to that. I'd like Final Cut Express as an option to do more advanced editing with my iMovie library - just choose which app I want. But these don't belong with NAB announcements :)
Apple needs to distinctly separate Final Cut Pro from consumer apps.
Personally as a Pro-sumer, I'd like to see iMovie align with the iPad version (use the timeline!) and sync to that. I'd like Final Cut Express as an option to do more advanced editing with my iMovie library - just choose which app I want. But these don't belong with NAB announcements :)
Eraserhead
Mar 1, 05:30 PM
Link, please.
Probably:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325635/Christian-couple-doomed-foster-carers-homosexuality-views.html
Probably:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325635/Christian-couple-doomed-foster-carers-homosexuality-views.html
Multimedia
Aug 18, 09:13 PM
From the time the Apple logo is displayed. There is a pause before that starts, I'd say only 10 seconds or so.So You are saying 10 seconds from OFF to the Grey Apple then 5 more seconds to the desktop? With 3 GB of New Egg + 2GB RAM? That's still very fast. Quad G5 is almost as fast as that though.
applefanDrew
Apr 11, 05:55 PM
You're right, but here's where i think is the difference. Browsing the Internet, Calendar, Checking Mail, Listening to songs, Texting, Multitasking, Notifications, Cut-Copy-Paste, ability to open and use Office files, Navigation system, basic tools like Currency converters, To-Do lists etc. These are what i believe encompasses in a "smartphone", and here's the newsflash: Android OS meets them perfectly.
I'm not talking about widgets, customization, dynamic wallapers etc
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system. Plus, browsing the internet, checking mail and practically everything is much better on a bigger screen.
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Imagine your iPhone without the App store and all the apps you downloaded from it. Now imagine the HTC EVO without the Android app store. Which is the better smartphone? It's pretty obvious if you ask me.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
iOS on the other hand is catching up to these "smartphone" features. My old Nokia E63 had a better notification system than the iPhone, and that's pathetic.
Yea that is obvious. The iPhone is better.
I'm not talking about widgets, customization, dynamic wallapers etc
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system. Plus, browsing the internet, checking mail and practically everything is much better on a bigger screen.
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Imagine your iPhone without the App store and all the apps you downloaded from it. Now imagine the HTC EVO without the Android app store. Which is the better smartphone? It's pretty obvious if you ask me.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
iOS on the other hand is catching up to these "smartphone" features. My old Nokia E63 had a better notification system than the iPhone, and that's pathetic.
Yea that is obvious. The iPhone is better.
PeterQVenkman
Apr 5, 08:12 PM
Nobody's using Blu-Ray, in my experience.
There is a whole thread about that, though. Don't read it.
Perhaps a little hasty of me, I was simply meant to say that in my experience I've not ever been required to deliver anything on Blu-Ray, and that to my mind it was a purely consumer format.
I've been to quite a few film festivals that take entries on Blu-Ray.
Apple has two mountains to climb: 1) to keep up with their competition where they used to lead. (2) They have to convince users that the mac as a pro platform is a good investment.
There is a whole thread about that, though. Don't read it.
Perhaps a little hasty of me, I was simply meant to say that in my experience I've not ever been required to deliver anything on Blu-Ray, and that to my mind it was a purely consumer format.
I've been to quite a few film festivals that take entries on Blu-Ray.
Apple has two mountains to climb: 1) to keep up with their competition where they used to lead. (2) They have to convince users that the mac as a pro platform is a good investment.
Angelus520
Aug 11, 10:41 AM
Take a look at the Nokia E61. I just got one to replace my BlackBerry and love it. It's the European version and you have to buy it unlocked ($350 or so) but it works great. Cingular is coming out with a dumbed down version called the E62 but strips away some of the cool features like WiFi. Go figure - an American phone with less features than the one sold in the rest of the world.
With crappy phones and our pathetic broadband infrastructure, you'd think we were Third World rather than a "Superpower."
I don't care so much about the iPod capability, but I would like to see the result of a smartphone by Apple. I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of the Treos and Palms.
Call me a sucker, but I'd like somehting that could do all the mundane, make my life easier, organization crap, and have it look cool as well. Oh, and not run on a crap OS.
With crappy phones and our pathetic broadband infrastructure, you'd think we were Third World rather than a "Superpower."
I don't care so much about the iPod capability, but I would like to see the result of a smartphone by Apple. I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of the Treos and Palms.
Call me a sucker, but I'd like somehting that could do all the mundane, make my life easier, organization crap, and have it look cool as well. Oh, and not run on a crap OS.
mrwonkers
Apr 6, 10:31 AM
No Real web designer uses iWeb...
Tried it for 5 minutes until i realised how closed up it is, ie no code view.
Not that i really need any graphic program anyway. TextWrangler and Notepad++ FTW!
Its not made for real web designers, its made for MILFs and Soccer Moms who just wanna wack a site 2getha...
Tried it for 5 minutes until i realised how closed up it is, ie no code view.
Not that i really need any graphic program anyway. TextWrangler and Notepad++ FTW!
Its not made for real web designers, its made for MILFs and Soccer Moms who just wanna wack a site 2getha...
Moyank24
Feb 28, 09:22 PM
I copy and pasted from the dictionary application that comes default installed with Macs, thank Apple for the laugh.
You have just introduced this new word "influcenes" which I can't memory match with an word I know. Assuming you mean influences which appears to match contextually, I do not know the answer, scientist do not appear to know either.
I do not know the cause, it appears scientists do not either. Since no one appears to know, what could you possibly have expected from me?
You can blame my work PC for not correcting my awful spelling. :rolleyes:
But, yes, obviously I meant influences.
Also, thank you for admitting what most people on here can see. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You have just introduced this new word "influcenes" which I can't memory match with an word I know. Assuming you mean influences which appears to match contextually, I do not know the answer, scientist do not appear to know either.
I do not know the cause, it appears scientists do not either. Since no one appears to know, what could you possibly have expected from me?
You can blame my work PC for not correcting my awful spelling. :rolleyes:
But, yes, obviously I meant influences.
Also, thank you for admitting what most people on here can see. You have no idea what you are talking about.
mc68k
Dec 23, 06:28 PM
well im a little stuck. my zonda r isnt fast enough for a lot of the top races, and the newly appointed online dealership has nice cars, but it doesnt rotate between them. so im really waiting for a nice car to come up in the used garage. either that or ill have to save up like 4M for a dealership car
hcuar
Sep 19, 12:27 PM
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
No way are you looking at a sub $1000 PC notebook with a Core 2 Duo. (edit: haha the Core 2 Duo you linked is a POS... it might be a C2D, but it operates at 1/2 the core frequency... GG).
It's not a matter of comparing Dell/Alienware to Apple for myself. There's only one type of machine I would purchase. I wouldn't purchase the current Macbook/pro right now realizing that a refresh is coming. However, some people really wouldn't care. If I "had" to purchase one... I'd get the Apple hands down. I'd gimp a bit and get OS X.
No... I don't have a MBP... no... I don't have an Intel based Mac. I'm sitting on the two Macs in my sig. I won't upgrade them until they die.
I'm not in any sort of reality distortion field. I just understand paying a bit more and accepting the products offered is a better option that getting "leet" hardware. Best example for me is AMD versus Intel. AMD has offered a faster processor for years, which was actually cheaper (until recently)... However Intel has provided the quality/stability. Therefore I wouldn't touch AMD. (I did with the XP line... big mistake). I consider Apple to be in the same realm. Did you ever consider that Apple actually cares about the engineering, and might be working a few bugs out?
I believe the age of good enough and cheap is over for the PC world. The market is making a shift to better reliability/stability.
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
No way are you looking at a sub $1000 PC notebook with a Core 2 Duo. (edit: haha the Core 2 Duo you linked is a POS... it might be a C2D, but it operates at 1/2 the core frequency... GG).
It's not a matter of comparing Dell/Alienware to Apple for myself. There's only one type of machine I would purchase. I wouldn't purchase the current Macbook/pro right now realizing that a refresh is coming. However, some people really wouldn't care. If I "had" to purchase one... I'd get the Apple hands down. I'd gimp a bit and get OS X.
No... I don't have a MBP... no... I don't have an Intel based Mac. I'm sitting on the two Macs in my sig. I won't upgrade them until they die.
I'm not in any sort of reality distortion field. I just understand paying a bit more and accepting the products offered is a better option that getting "leet" hardware. Best example for me is AMD versus Intel. AMD has offered a faster processor for years, which was actually cheaper (until recently)... However Intel has provided the quality/stability. Therefore I wouldn't touch AMD. (I did with the XP line... big mistake). I consider Apple to be in the same realm. Did you ever consider that Apple actually cares about the engineering, and might be working a few bugs out?
I believe the age of good enough and cheap is over for the PC world. The market is making a shift to better reliability/stability.
digitalbiker
Aug 25, 10:09 PM
In a world full of computers, I want to be helped by a human with common sense.
I'm with you on this one! The first thing I do when I reach a phone menu system is try to figure out how to circumvent it so that I can get to a real person.
The problem with menu systems is that they only cover the most likely common user problems. I have been around computers long enough that I can fix all the easy issues. The only time I call is when my problem is serious and phone support never has a menu option for that.
I'm with you on this one! The first thing I do when I reach a phone menu system is try to figure out how to circumvent it so that I can get to a real person.
The problem with menu systems is that they only cover the most likely common user problems. I have been around computers long enough that I can fix all the easy issues. The only time I call is when my problem is serious and phone support never has a menu option for that.
QCassidy352
Apr 6, 11:58 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
ThunderSkunk
Mar 26, 10:26 PM
I have a question.
I don't expect we'll be able to use iOS apps in OS X as early as Lion, and I understand based on the different chip architecture, it shouldn't be able to run at all...
buuuuut,
I distinctly remember watching that first keynote when they made their dev program available, and walked us through the iPhone dev tools, and seeing an OS X On-screen emulator, that would let you code and test your apps as you wrote them right there in OS X, with a big clumsy dot for a "fingertip"...
If they'll run in that emulator, isn't it conceivable that in some way, your iOS apps would find a way, using that emulator layer, to look something like dashboard, to run in both environments?
I'm thinking, syncing the data between both mobile and desktop iOS apps would be simple enough to be done automatically, like dropbox for instance, or a basic itunes information sync... Then on your desktop or MBP, you'd have access to content you've created on your mobile device, for a seamless user experience. None of this "sent to itunes, download from itunes" nonsense, with verions all over the place to keep track of.
I imagine a macbook pro will come someday, with a standard vertical screen and basically an ipad for the horizontal keyboard area. Imagine the possibilities there, of integrating the two ecosystems... how could they NOT give that a try?
We're not there yet, obviously, but Lion seems like something of a step in that direction.
I don't expect we'll be able to use iOS apps in OS X as early as Lion, and I understand based on the different chip architecture, it shouldn't be able to run at all...
buuuuut,
I distinctly remember watching that first keynote when they made their dev program available, and walked us through the iPhone dev tools, and seeing an OS X On-screen emulator, that would let you code and test your apps as you wrote them right there in OS X, with a big clumsy dot for a "fingertip"...
If they'll run in that emulator, isn't it conceivable that in some way, your iOS apps would find a way, using that emulator layer, to look something like dashboard, to run in both environments?
I'm thinking, syncing the data between both mobile and desktop iOS apps would be simple enough to be done automatically, like dropbox for instance, or a basic itunes information sync... Then on your desktop or MBP, you'd have access to content you've created on your mobile device, for a seamless user experience. None of this "sent to itunes, download from itunes" nonsense, with verions all over the place to keep track of.
I imagine a macbook pro will come someday, with a standard vertical screen and basically an ipad for the horizontal keyboard area. Imagine the possibilities there, of integrating the two ecosystems... how could they NOT give that a try?
We're not there yet, obviously, but Lion seems like something of a step in that direction.
j-traxx
Apr 11, 11:47 AM
My 3Gs contract ends in June and Apple will be pushing it's luck for me to go half a year without me being tempted to jump platforms instead of waiting for the iPhone 5.
ooh they'd better if they know what's good for them! you tell them off!
ooh they'd better if they know what's good for them! you tell them off!
mwswami
Jul 21, 01:31 PM
I strongly disagree. I could use 16 cores right now for notihng more than simple consumer electronics video compression routines. There will be a Mac Pro with 8 cores this Winter 2007.
Hey Multimedia, just curious, I wonder what's your current (something you want to use for the next 1-2 years) idea of the ultimate machine wrt number of Cores, Memory, Storage, etc. And, how much are you willing to pay for it?
Hey Multimedia, just curious, I wonder what's your current (something you want to use for the next 1-2 years) idea of the ultimate machine wrt number of Cores, Memory, Storage, etc. And, how much are you willing to pay for it?
Lesser Evets
Apr 6, 03:45 PM
Should be called XOOSH: the sound of a toilet flushing.
edgcrshr
Apr 8, 12:22 AM
I am still waiting on my black 16gb wifi, I preordered it Sunday after launch and am still waiting for Best Buy to call me. I guess I am going to have to call them and see what is going on. I have not been looking elsewhere since I wanted to get it from them and use gift cards, looks like that may not be happening anymore.
Popeye206
Apr 25, 02:54 PM
Anybody doing credit card fraud would have a somewhat better chance of staying undetected if they knew you usually whereabouts. Credit card companies use highly evolved software to track if a CC transaction is unusual.
I think it is save to assume that most people do not store their credit card number in plain text on their computer. If some piece of software (eg, a browser) would do this, wouldn't this be something you preferred it would not do?
Ahhhh..... dude... I'm more worried about my wallet being stolen.
Again... the tower tracking does nothing and for your average crook to put your iPhone database together with your physical credit card... for what? They slash and burn not sit there and try and sort out if you go to Target or JC Penneys more. What do they care?
Come one people... think and come back to earth.
I think it is save to assume that most people do not store their credit card number in plain text on their computer. If some piece of software (eg, a browser) would do this, wouldn't this be something you preferred it would not do?
Ahhhh..... dude... I'm more worried about my wallet being stolen.
Again... the tower tracking does nothing and for your average crook to put your iPhone database together with your physical credit card... for what? They slash and burn not sit there and try and sort out if you go to Target or JC Penneys more. What do they care?
Come one people... think and come back to earth.
admanimal
Apr 11, 12:22 PM
For me those changes would be -
a) Check box that says "Allow app installs from unknown sources")
You might as well start shopping for a different phone now.
Personally I'm in no rush to upgrade as I still have some time on my contract. With that said, I would rather have Apple take their time and put out a quality product. Lately we've seen some issues with recent releases and it would be great if Apple could go back to making high quality products.
I have a feeling that everyone complaining about the apparent "delay" would be the same crowd who would be up in arms if Apple released an iPhone in June that wasn't a massive hardware and software upgrade with flawless production quality. This is not to say that taking longer guarantees that either of those things will be true, but if you are the type of person who has complained about them in the past, Apple taking longer should make you hopeful, not upset.
a) Check box that says "Allow app installs from unknown sources")
You might as well start shopping for a different phone now.
Personally I'm in no rush to upgrade as I still have some time on my contract. With that said, I would rather have Apple take their time and put out a quality product. Lately we've seen some issues with recent releases and it would be great if Apple could go back to making high quality products.
I have a feeling that everyone complaining about the apparent "delay" would be the same crowd who would be up in arms if Apple released an iPhone in June that wasn't a massive hardware and software upgrade with flawless production quality. This is not to say that taking longer guarantees that either of those things will be true, but if you are the type of person who has complained about them in the past, Apple taking longer should make you hopeful, not upset.
iStudentUK
Apr 11, 11:26 AM
They should stick to the June update each year. I know it may not be their fault but Apple need to keep the iPhone up to date, otherwise they will lose ground. Mobile phones are very competitive.
BJNY
Aug 23, 09:38 AM
My Quad G5 is silent as well, unlike Dual 2.7's which rev frequently.
I was concerned that the fans at the rear ports never spin, even during the Apple Hardware Test, but I've noticed that in other Quads as well. CPU temps are 50 to 60 degrees celcius.
Multimedia, would you confirm both with your Quad G5, please?
I was concerned that the fans at the rear ports never spin, even during the Apple Hardware Test, but I've noticed that in other Quads as well. CPU temps are 50 to 60 degrees celcius.
Multimedia, would you confirm both with your Quad G5, please?
solvs
Aug 27, 12:37 AM
That $100 million that Apple just wasted on Creative could have meant new supercooled mobile G5's if it would have been pumped into IBM (Power.org).
Ha! $100 million wouldn't come close to even paying for 1 factory to be built, let alone continued costs. I would have loved more PPC machines, but it is what it is, and the new Intel chips are pretty good. At least better than the crappy P4s they're replacing. The G4/5s could have been great, but IBM and Moto/Freescale dropped the ball, and would have continued to do so unless Apple spent somewhere more in the billions, not millions. Maybe not even then. It sucks that quality has gone down as costs have, but such is the nature of the beast. Hopefully something comes of all the complaints, and Apple can get it's act together as well as further find a way to drive down costs without becoming like Dell. I just had to deal with Dell support, and let me tell you, it was not fun.
And for the record, they've been using the same somewhat standard PC parts for awhile now, minus their proprietary chipsets, which BTW are still proprietary.
Ha! $100 million wouldn't come close to even paying for 1 factory to be built, let alone continued costs. I would have loved more PPC machines, but it is what it is, and the new Intel chips are pretty good. At least better than the crappy P4s they're replacing. The G4/5s could have been great, but IBM and Moto/Freescale dropped the ball, and would have continued to do so unless Apple spent somewhere more in the billions, not millions. Maybe not even then. It sucks that quality has gone down as costs have, but such is the nature of the beast. Hopefully something comes of all the complaints, and Apple can get it's act together as well as further find a way to drive down costs without becoming like Dell. I just had to deal with Dell support, and let me tell you, it was not fun.
And for the record, they've been using the same somewhat standard PC parts for awhile now, minus their proprietary chipsets, which BTW are still proprietary.
freeny
Aug 7, 04:19 PM
sorry double post
No comments:
Post a Comment